Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: Why the Greeks Matter (Hinges of History)

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How the Irish Saved Civilization is a marvelous book. Though none of the subsequent books in what has become "The Hinges of History" series have equaled the first one, Cahill continues to write very readable accounts of the development of Western civilization. This book, subtitled "Why the Greeks Matter," is, as you might suspect, a sketch of the contributions of the ancient Greeks to our culture from Homer through the influence of Greek though on early Christianity.

I have a soft spot for Greek culture so I was easily won over by this book. Though there is some value to the trend of multiculturalism that has permeated American schools in recent decades, I believe strongly that no culture has had more impact on modern Western civilization than the Greeks and we ignore them at our peril. In examining the strengths and weaknesses of the Greeks, we can see an image of our own strengths and weaknesses.

I was a little disappointed to find very little discussion of the Greek development of mathematics (beyond a brief discussion of Pythagoras, focusing mainly on his philosophy). Greek formalization of mathematics may be their most important legacy to us, ultimately leading to modern science. Instead, Cahill focuses mainly on literature, art, philosophy and politics and, in these areas, offers a nice history.

Clearly, Cahill is knowledgeable and his prose is very readable despite his tendency to quote extensively in this book. He doesn't offer us many unique or challenging insights but he does remind us of the great contributions of Greek culture. It is a valuable thing to do.

As a Greek-American, a college professor who has taught a course on the ancient Greeks (Hellenes), and something of a fan of Thomas Cahill, I was very excited to see his latest book on the rise of the Western Liberal Tradition, "Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: Why the Greeks Matter." Perhaps because my expectations were so high, I was a little disappointed. It is a worthy volume in his "Hinges of History" series, but it is not without some problems. But let us be honest, Cahill is a humanist and speaks of ancient Hellas from the perspective of the humanities in general rather than history or political science and that may be the problem here. Much of his historical narrative is episodic and misses some vital points. For instance, despite his title, "Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea," he fails to emphasize the importance of the sea to Greek life or mention the battle of Salamis, "Holy Salamis," which according to many historians, including Victor Davis Hanson, saved Western culture from the Iranian (Achaemenid Persian) onslaught. Cahill devotes a chapter to "The Warrior: How to Fight," but makes no mention of this vital battle or the importance of Hellenic warfare by use of the trireme. The battle is not even included in his brief Chronology (later battles, Plataea and Mycale, are mentioned). True, some have questioned the overall impact of Salamis, but to the Hellenes it was a victory sent by the gods. It is interesting that this subject is missing but other, rather obscure cultural elements such as a somewhat odd emphasis on Greek sexual preferences, are included. Still, this is a valuable volume that will be embraced by the general public. In this context, his discussion of Christianity's debt to the Greeks is quite accurate and illuminating. And like a number of others he reminds us of the current relevance of Thucydides, in light of American imperial temptaions in the Persian Gulf. Even so, the West's debt to a people that gave us the single most defining element of the Western Liberal Tradition, "secularism" and the division of church and state, the very notion that the people who live by law should have the right to write them and govern themselves according to written constitutions, is only a passing reference here, and reduces the impact of what could have been a much better book.

I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Cahill prior to his publication of the first "hinges of history" book, "How the Irish Saved Civilization." I found his premise for this series of books fascinating, and have read every book in the series. I was particularly looking foward to his book on the Greeks because: (1) it was somewhat of a departure for him in that it is a "pagan" civilization, unlike the books on the Hebrews, Jesus, and Saint Patrick he wrote from his theological background; and (2) having read most of the noted Greek works from Plato, Homer, Thuycidides, Herodotus, Aeschylus, Euripides, Sophocles, etc., I was interested to get Mr. Cahill's "take" on the importance of this civilization. Well, if you've read the Greeks, don't bother reading Cahill. He quotes liberally from these authors, without much new enlightment for those readers that have read the original works. This would be an okay introductory text for people that have not read the original works. But, even then, it's not all that illuminating. There was a fascination with Greek erotica that did not elevate the tone of the discussion. Nor was his footnote comparing the Peloponnesian War with the Iraq War of Bush & Rumsfeld appropriate in a book that does not wish to date itself for future readers outside our era. Guess Mr. Cahill suspected this book will have a short shelf-life. If you wish to read a more penetrating, poignant, and insightful study of the Greek civilzation, I recommend the hard-to-find Edith Hamilton books, "The Greek Way," and, especially, "Echo of Greece."

There are at least four million plants and animals on earth, which means there are four million ways of staying alive. Yet, Cahill is devoting a series of books to the dubious proposition that only half-a-dozen or so really matter.

The book expresses a basically good idea -- how did our modern world come to be? His hypothesis contends the Greeks invented it, he rounds up the usual collection of facts to prove his assumption. It's impressive, and it can't be denied the Greeks came up with some of the world's finest arguments to support democracy. But, they also came up with fine arguments against democracy; Plato's arguments for "rule by the best" hobbled the world for at least 2,500 years.

Plato tried to provide answers; for example, in ranking government from the finest to the worst, he ranked aristocracy as the best. Next came military rule, then a business oligarchy, then the rule by inexperts which he called democracy; and, worst of all, tyranny. It's hardly surprising church and secular leaders warmly endorsed Plato's views for the past 2,500 years.

The book is an interesting compilation of some Greek ideas. He writes, "fate was central to Greeks and Romans, hope is central to Jews and Christians." Yet, democracy is an exuberant expression of hope. Unfortunately, Cahill fails to reconcile a government based on hope with the idea the Greeks believed in fate. As in his narrow argument about the Irish saving civilization, he ignores the full panopoly of Greek ideas and accomplishments and the impact of non-Greek ideas.

Direct democracy failed in Greece. Modern representative democracy evolved in an unbroken but greatly tortured path from the equally ancient "althing" of Scandinavia. In the late eighteenth century, the debate in England and America about the nature of democracy cited Greece as a diffuse distant dim ideal to justify preserving and/or changing the status quo. On a practical basis in America, the Iroquois confederacy may have had more impact than anything from Greece. You'll never know from this book.

Life adapts itself to different environments, as Charles Darwin discovered when he saw finches. Likewise, democracy adapts itself to different environments, which is why England and the United States are equally democratic in profoundly different ways. You'll never know from this book.

Greek culture was inherited from Asia Minor, Crete, Phoenicia, and Egypt -- just as American culture is a world-wide amalgam. The tragedy of ancient Greece, still a destructive feature of the Balkans, is the inability to unite in any common cause except a passion to destroy each other. You'll never learn it from this book.

The ancient Greek genius was to question everything -- not to offer answers. Read "Antigone" and tell me the correct answer. It's a pity Cahill didn't focus on this issue, and leave the thinking and conclusions to the reader. Greek failures may well be of far more use to us today than their limited and brief successes.

Granted, near the end of the book in discussing the decline and fall of Greece, he outlines a disturbing parallel in modern politics, "Though the gods were more and more loudly invoked, the prayers rang hollow, the appeal to conscience turned mute, and any reference to social justice tended to be met with a knowing smirk."

The Greeks turned cynical as their society declined, just as many Americans are now cynical about their own "Smirker-in-Chief." The Greeks had no answer, Cahill offers none. If the Greeks really mattered, we could learn from them. If not, this book offers as much insight as comparing the first-class and steerage-class menus on the S.S. Titanic.

Our civilization is a lot more complicated than "one people solves all." You'll never learn it from this book.

I expected far more from the author of the other books in the "Hinges" series. I expected a synthesis of Greek contributions, thought and limitations but found it missing from the book. While the "How to . . ." structure interested me, the dialog slowly failed to go anywhere. The discussions mostly limited themselves to the Athenian portion of the Greek world and seemed to parrot the ideas of other Greek scholars, but in a manner less interesting than the original. The discussion on Greek art remided me of my own poor effort to describe the vast wealth in a college term paper.

I agree with his fundamental thesis that the Hellenic world was a cosmopolitan place with the full spectrum of human nobility and infamy, which continue to influence the world today. However, he failed to fully develop, discuss and prove his topics. For example in his concluding chapter, he gives us a five page long quotation from Thucydides: "History of the Pelopenesian War". This crutch of failed historians is unworthy of the author of "How the Irish Saved Civilization". He seemed in a hurry to cover the material and get to some other place.

I was most disappointed at his attacks on President Bush over the Iraqi War. Lack of a universal coalition does not make the removal of a mass murdering thug hubris! The author is entitled to his opinion about the virtues of the war, but a scholarly work on the importance of the Greeks to 3500 years of Western history limits the wonder the book might have shown us.

Read the primary sources or books by Michael Grant for a better discussion of this topic.

There has recently arisen a small cottage-industry of writers pronouncing the death of classics as an academic discipline. While the jury is still out on this question, there are few more powerful indictments of academia's failure to reach an audience than Thomas Cahill's fourth volume in his Hinges of History series: Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea (Anchor 2003). That an apparently intelligent and well-read man could be so ignorant of classical scholarship of the last century is simply appalling.

Cahill starts, as he must, with the Iliad and the Odyssey, since Homer stands as the literary foundation stone both of Greek poetry and Western literature generally. Now these poems are extremely dense, having been composed over centuries as the culmination of Greek oral tradition. They have also been intensively studied, and even a basic bibliography of Homeric studies can run to hundreds of entries in English, French and German.

Homer in this respect can be analogized to modern chess openings, which have also been exhaustively analyzed. Different approaches to interpreting the poems can be likened to the various openings, such as the Ruy Lopez, the Sicilian and the Queen's Gambit Declined. One can, for instance, read Hector and not Achilles to be the hero of the Iliad, but this must meet a number of difficulties, rather like the Sicilian defense (Dragon variation) can be expected to meet the Yugoslav attack. How will the interpreter (or the chess player) respond to these challenges?

Cahill for his part seems blissfully ignorant of any problems at all. He adopts the approach of reading Hector as the hero. (SWDS, p. 34.) To continue the chess analogy, one can call this a playable position; the last time I recall it being advanced intelligently was by James Redfield (1975). However, there are several well-known problems, including: 1.) The language of Achilles; 2.) The genealogy of Achilles; and 3.) The established Greek tradition, which unequivocally made Achilles the hero of the Iliad.

As to the first of these problems, I do not mean to write a book on the subject; this has already been done by scholars Cahill seems not to have heard of: Adam Parry (1956) and Richard Martin (1989). Briefly, persuasive linguistic studies have shown that Achilles speaks in a higher register than the other heroes - what Martin termed the "expansion aesthetic."

What does it say of Hector, if he is the hero of the Iliad, that he does not sound as heroic? (One can read Hamlet to say that Polonius is the hero of the piece, done in by a homicidal maniac, but then Hamlet is just so much more eloquent.) This is not a problem for Cahill. Of course it is not a problem; he apparently has not read the poem in Greek and has not read the scholars who have.

Perhaps the most difficult problem with elevating Hector at the expense of Achilles, whom Cahill dismisses as "a petulant boy who leaves the playground with his toys" (SWDS, p. 66), is that it makes the choice of Achilles (too simply: between glory with a short life and obscurity with a long one) virtually meaningless. All one is left with then is the raw carnage of the poem, with few redeeming features, which in fact is precisely where Cahill ends up: at the precedent to the "Western war machine" (SWDS, p. 45). This is a gross disservice to Homer.

In similar fashion, Cahill misses the importance of nostos (return) in the Odyssey, can find neither "complexity of metaphor nor subtlety of concept" (SWDS, p. 122) in Aeschylus, launches a discussion of Sophocles' Oedipus Rex without considering kinds of knowledge, and accepts Euripides' Medea as though it were a historic account without artifice. He also manages to forget the Sophists (and the physis/nomos debate) in his treatment of Plato and Socrates, and then, inexplicably, places Sophism at a later period (SWDS, p. 251).

For a kind of grand finale, Cahill dismisses the whole of Roman culture: its language, drama and philosophy (SWDS, p. 200), and its religion (SWDS, p. 252 ["the Romans may have had the most boring religion of all"].) In this breathtaking display of sheer stupidity, Cahill has raised the art of opinionated rant to heights undreamed of by talk radio.

I cannot end this review without mentioning the factual problems in Cahill's book; they litter the landscape like empty Coke bottles in the Plaka. On virtually every page, one can find dubious assertions, typographical errors and outright mistakes. For instance, the division of the Iliad and the Odyssey into 24 books was probably "a product of post-Homeric activity" (Kirk [1985]), not done by "Homer" (SWDS, p. 62). Second, Calypso (Od. 5:57) and not Circe (Od. 10:210-211) lived in a cave (SWDS, p. 71). Third, Nausicaa went out for washing clothes (Od. 6:90-95), not a swim (SWDS, p. 74). Fourth, there was only sometimes a connection between the satyr play and the dramatic trilogy (SWDS, p. 142). Fifth, the term for the beloved was eromenos, not eremenos (SWDS, p. 178). Sixth, Socrates' divine calling probably was not from childhood (SWDS, p. 181). Seventh, The battle of Thermopylae took place in 480 BCE, not in 490 BCE (SWDS, p. 189). Eighth, the terms person, substance and nature are Latin, not Greek (SWDS, p. 257).

I have been a little hard on Cahill, primarily because he is a knucklehead, but I gave him two stars for my review. Why? He loves Sappho, and that shows very good taste. However, I could never recommend this book to anyone seeking even a rudimentary knowledge of Greek culture. Cahill is too much like the unofficial guide one sometimes finds in Athens: he shows you the ruins of an ancient falafel stand and tells you it is the Parthenon. He is not a bad writer; just badly misinformed.

This is a disappointing book. Its title suggests an intellectual adventure of the new, and its subtitle promises that it will be about why the Greeks are important to us -- in other words, what the ancient Greeks offered that is distinct to them and that made western civilization possible. This book does not deliver on the promises of its title.

It is a rehash of standard scholarship delivered in language of the common man (common according to Cahill). As such it presents what amounts to a laundry-list of non-essentials that does not clearly differentiate the Greeks from other cultures, nor account for western civilization. For example, this list includes the following Greek "contributions" to the West: blood-lusting militarism, vowels, the subconscious yearning for community, unfettered discourse and inquiry, homosexuality, pornography, orgiastic debauchery, slavery, democracy, political theatre, the idea of innate guilt, xenophobia, sexism, racism, imperialism, "help" inventing things like philosophy, science and history, the Socratic Method, the syllogism, transcendentalism and the divine, improvements in architecture and sculpture, pathos and yearning for an impossible ideal, pedophilia, reckless conceit, the idea of self-sacrifice for the common good. How can the reader determine what out of this hash made western civilization possible? In the spirit of cultural relativism, Cahill offers no guidance.

Cahill's list of non-essentials ignores the most fundamental Greek contribution that made western civilization possible: the discovery and use of reason. Because Cahill does not recognize this foundational, defining contribution of the Greeks, he cannot differentiate those aspects of the Greeks that are due to their discovery of reason versus those inherited from irrational, primitive cultures that in no way made the West possible.

All in all, Cahill's work is without distinction -- it is typical of a certain stream of academia still knocking around since WWII that remains fascinated with unreason. For example Cahill devotes over 20 pages to Plato and his Socrates, quoting extensively in loving detail, while he offers only a couple of pages in passing reference to Aristotle. This is a standard pattern of some academics who still find comfort in the rambling, transcendental dialogues of Plato, and chilly apprehension before the disciplines of Aristotle. On this score there is nothing new here.

The banality of this book is sealed by its failure to acknowledge that there is such a thing as human greatness, or to name what it is about western civilization that is truly great as compared with other cultures. The cultural relativism of this book, so in-line with mainstream thinking today, renders the Greeks as just another group of people that did some things that we sort of do too. The only interest offered in this alleged adventure is knowing that the Greeks were the first to do a lot of what we do. How boring.

The only originality this work offers to the great conversation about the classical world is the author's flippant "common man" style that includes four-letter words and silly footnotes about banning SUVs and Donald Rumsfeld of all things.

If readers want books that do offer a view of why the Greeks matter, they are much better off exploring Edith Hamilton's The Greek Way, or The Greek Achievement by Charles Freeman (who Cahill cattily describes in his Sailing book as an "amateur" -- a projection on Cahill's part.) For the best view to the Greeks, the Loeb Classical Library offers a true adventure over the wine-dark sea.

The brief overview of what Cahill deems important about the Greeks, the pronouncing gazetteer, a page on the alphabet, a miniscule bibliography (no doubt the source of this opinionated arrogant book) were all fine I suppose for people unfamiliar with the existence of Ancient Greece. But the last chapter comparing John Kennedy to Pericles (wouldn't Ted Sorensen have been a better choice?) and attacking President Bush in his facile comparison of the decline of Greece to the current administration, show Thomas Cahill's breezy tome for what it is: Ancient Greece for Dummies.Partisan ones.

One would think a person with Mr. Cahill's education and vocabulary would have found suitable euphemisms for 'c***sucker' and the 'F' word. Masking this garbage under the guise of intellectual freedom and reality is truely sad. Including shards of porn to reflect the art of Greece is another example of Mr. Cahill's taste and sensibilities and more reason to avoid this book if you don't find such things enlightening. Go with Gustav Schwab's "Gods and Heroes of Ancient Greece" or Michael Grant's "The Rise of the Greeks" or Allen Mandelbaum's translation of Ovid and pass on Cahill.

The author's excessive vulgar language and needless Bush bashing make me want to close the door on these Hinges of History.

Thomas Cahill's primer of Classical Greece will attract a lot of interest from fans of this series, which began with his popular "How the Irish Saved Civilization." The book focuses on classical Greek culture - Homer, the theatre, philosophy, and art. The choice of topics is standard, the treatment conventional rather than inspired, the writing breezy and informal (including an annoying amount of slang.) Really there is nothing new here, but on the positive side, the book does provide a basic level of information about ancient Greece to readers who are lacking it.

Cahill's discussion of sexuality in ancient Greece is quite explicit; it includes frank translations of obscene Greek verse, explicit images of sexual activity on Greek vases, and blunt explanations of who is doing what to whom, complete with those good old Anglo-Saxon "four-letter words" in case anybody doesn't get the point.

Superficial generalizations and analogies (between Solon and Franklin D. Roosevelt, between Pericles and John F. Kennedy, between the Peloponnesian War and the Second Gulf War) detract from the exposition, and illuminate neither ancient times nor our own.

The book contains several minor lapses, and at least one "howler:" on page 189, Cahill astonishingly asserts that the battle of Thermopylae "proved the decisive turning point of the war, preventing the Persian army from descending on Greece." Of course, Thermopylae did no such thing; after several days of heroic Spartan resistance, the Persians finaly overran the position, poured into Attica, sacked Athens, and burned the Acropolis to the ground.

Other lapses include the idea that Minoan palace civilization was destroyed by the eruption of Thera (from archaeology, we now know that the Minoans rebuilt afterwards); a regrettable confusion between hetairai and Geishas (the Japanese Geishas were purely entertainers, and did not provide sexual favors to their clients); and a failure to mention the most probable reason that Socrates was put to death (namely, that he was on the losing (pro-Spartan) side of the political division that appeared in Athens following its defeat by Sparta in the Peloponnesian War.)

In summary, while Cahill is enough of a classicist to give us some of his own translations from the Greek, and although he has presented a good selection of topics for an introductory audience, there are enough lapses in the book that it seemed like a disappointment compared to others in this series.

Thomas Cahill steps back into history and brings it to life. From the Homeric epics through politicians, playwrights and philosophers he assembles the cast and directs the reader to remember again why the ancient Greeks are so important to us today. With his usual wit and wonderful side-notes he illumines our path to see the message this history teaches. He is the teacher we all should have had in our college classics departments!

Thomas Cahill's Hinges of History series has illuminated several corners of history for the general reader, from medieval Ireland to the development of Judaism and Christianity. Now Cahill has turned to the ancient Greeks to demonstrate why they are important today.

In a series of several chapters written in scholarly yet accessible to the general reader style, Cahill skillfully dissects Greek history, philosophy, drama, and morality. He shows us the Greek origins of many of our ideas about government, literature, and art, and ends with a chapter that demonstrates the intersections between the Greeks and the Judeo-Christian ideas which came to dominate so much of the world. Like the other volumes in this series, Sailing the Wine Dark Sea will entertain and inform.

I wanted this to be a great read, unfortunately it was not. The author spent more time on Greek sexuality, specifically homosexuality, than on any other topic. Every chapter, whether it dealt with Philosophy, Art or War, spent an inordinate amount of time delving into Greek eroticism. In the end I felt that Cahill delighted in using foul language and crass terms for shock value -- they added nothing and certainly became more than annoying towards the end. Cahill opens and closes the book by talking about America and North Korea -- dating the material and making me wonder how serious he was when he wrote it.

Thankfully it was a quick read and not too much of my time was lost. I suggest you pass on this book and look for another. You won't learn anything interesting here, unless you want to know more about the sexual habits in ancient Greece.

To be honest, I was first drawn by the cover. It's a gorgeous shot for sure, and living in Michigan during the winter, it was a bit of a tease.

Second thought was, being a Greek-American was that a modern writer was finally writing about us Greeks (universally agreed as the best of the best....just kidding.)

When I read the book however, it seemed to be more of a primer than anything. That is, he covers certain aspects of the actual history, covers some poetry, and philosophers, and pays Thucydides the credit and admiration he deserves.

Other than that, the book seemed to criticize ancient Greece for having slaves and prohibiting women to vote. This isn't really put into context very well, as a democracy no matter how limited is several steps ahead of autocracy. Also, the writing seems to focus on the raunchy aspects that a writer would approach if he wanted partying under-grads to think ancient cultures were "cool" too.

Overall, if you're only slightly familiar with Greek history/culture it's a good primer. But if you are a serious student, don't bother. But the cover alone is pretty enough for at least a couple dollars.

A rollicking journey through time and culture. Cahill follows the taproot of Western Civilization from today through the Enlightenment to ancient Greece. The tree is comprised of branches on how to make war, what is valuable in literature, the arts, philosophy and religion. It was the Greeks, through Enlightenment thinkers, who provided the seeds of American democratic ideals. Cahill's irreverent prose, hopefully shocking to some, reads like a sophomoric rebellion against his Jesuit mentors. Sex plays a major role in nearly every aspect of Greek society [and what's novel about that?] and Cahill delves into it with gusto. Even here, the Greeks seem to have shown more restraint than Cahill.

Cahill is always a challenging and invigorating read. He holds your attention through dazzling prose and iconoclastic concepts. By dividing the book conceptually instead of simply chronologically, you are given time to pause and reflect on his ideas. For a man relating history, Cahill projects unrelaistic modern values to ancient times. He deems the Greeks "classicist, racist and sexist". Yet these modern terms would puzzle any Greek of the period. He extols their intellectual accomplishments without inquiring how the leisure time to pursue these hobbies was achieved. Slavery was the labour-saving device of the day. No-one then challenged its existence, why does Cahill do so now? Slavery and division of resources bred a social hierarchy allowing the arts to flourish and democracy to evolve. Only anarchy and pure communism can do otherwise - neither lead to arts or stable rule. To call the Greeks "sexist" while admiring their presentation of the human form, whether male or female, seems a bit thin. Given his presentation of goddesses, muses, and Sappho herself, his stance is almost false.

Cahill's title is interesting in view of how little attention he gives the Greek empire. Their forays around the Mediterranean are but sketchily noted. Greek settlement on Sicily is mentioned, but little else. There is allusion of cultural imports from Egypt, but these might have been obtained from Egyptians or Levant peoples bringing them in as much as the Greeks seeking innovation from outside. The focus here is Athens, almost to the point of exclusion of the remainder of Greece. Sparta's militarism is touched on in contrast to the more democratic and urbane Athens. 'How Greek was Macedonia?', Cahill enquires, then dismisses the question. Yet, it was Macedonia's Alexander, as Cahill himself notes, who extended the "Greek Ideal" further afield than the Athenians could envision.

If the reader can recognise that this book can only represent a small step toward understanding ancient societies, particularly that of the Greeks, then this book may be considered a good start. Although sprinkled with notes, coyly marked with Greek letters instead of numbers or asterisks, this is hardly a scholarly effort. The use and definition of Greek words that migrated into other European languages is useful, but tedious to transcribe. It's not clear why the Greek alphabet is included, but the Pronouncing Glossary is truly only a recapitulation of the "cast of characters" for which the Index could suffice. The Notes and Sources are a good reading list, focussing on recent works where possible. There is no discussion of contending ideas among scholars studying the period here or in the text. A collection of photos enhances and expands on some of the text, and the one map is useful if you don't have an atlas. [stephen a. haines - Ottawa, Canada]

Mr. Cahill is an accomplished, erudite, sophisticated academic with a gift for simplifying the complexities of ancient civilizations and, thereby, making them accessible to the casual modern reader. Sadly, in Sailing the Wine-Dark Seas, he has allowed his obvious preoccupation with base erotica (often stooping to vulgar phrases that most who are reading this text would not use in discourse with close friends)to obscure the assumed goal of enlightening the masses. Athough clearly more than adequately conversant with the culture under discussion, Cahill provides the reader with only the most superficial analysis and precious little original thought. In addition, Mr. Cahill's anti-Bush political beliefs are permitted to intrude into the narrative, serving only to demean his scholarship and date his work. A very disappointing offering in what is otherwise an excellent series.

I was surprised by the relatively cool evaluations of this book! I have a bushel of fragments about Greek civilization beginning with Durant's Life of Greece in the eighth grade, but Cahill has sorted my fragments into a coherent mosaic which also brings it into the perspective of contemporary life. How many references I have in my "bushel" to Pericles's Funeral Oration, but why had I never read it complete, and freshly translated? Thank you, Mr. Cahill!

I almost didn't purchase this book after reading other customer reviews. So glad I took a chance. It's interesting that this book incites such emotional and critical responses. It's not meant to be an encylopedia or a text book on ancient Greece. As Cahill explains in the introduction, "you will find no breakthrough discoveries, no cutting-edge scholarship, just, if I have succeeded, the feeling and perceptions of another age and, insofar as possible, real and rounded men and women. For me, the historian's principal task should be to raise the dead to life." In my opinion, he succeeds beautifully in SWDS.

Comments from reviewers regarding excessive time spent on eroticism and sex seem more a reflection of those readers own inhibitions and filters. After reading those reviews I thought this was going to be XXX-rated. Maybe in Victorian England, not in the present. Discussions of sex were more limited than expected, and sex is, afterall, an essential component of cultural mores and critical to understanding how ancient Greeks lived life. So lighten up already.

My advice is don't be put off by these negative reviews. SWDS is a great read, enlightening, entertaining, and well worth the time. Thank you, Thomas Cahill.

I walked into Cahill's classroom when "How The Irish Saved Civilization" was wowing the Academic community. And I must say I was impressed by the lecture. It confirmed some suspicions I had about fifth/sixth century cultural communications betwen East and West. I guess I was ready for it like a well read graduate student in a serious seminar.
Wine Dark Seas is no such classroom (as some other reviewers point out there are factual errors as well as errors of taste.) Yet, despite these flaws, and they are flaws, this book, I think, best compares to the trendy professor teaching a Humanities One course. Forget the "Hinges of History " title, this is not HISTORY. It might serve as a quick refresher to the traditional liberal arts majors, but its main purpose is a general education elective for bus/ag/ed/engineering majors, not graduate level, or even advanced undergrad Classics or History majors.
Every teacher of Art/Lit/Classics has been asked at one time, "Why do we have to read this junk?" And we answer, "Because it matters." Cahill shows "why the Greeks mattered" and continue to do so. In seven core chapters and with illustrations the book details the Greeks shaping influence on warfare, poetics, society, politics, philosophy, aesthetics and theology. These terms themselves illustrate the point. For his chapter titles, Cahill popularizes : "How to fight." "How to feel." etc. The book never bogs down in the abtruse potentially lurking in this topic. The pronouncing glossary of names and a chronology are helpful and for the vast majority, the Greek Alphabet is a practical necessity. And while allowing for the breezy vulgarity, I would be happy if this book rather than some video games would occupy some of my son's hours.

Thomas Cahill is doing a great service in making the basic tenets of Western European history available, readable and enjoyable. After a few decades of trying so hard to right the wrongs of centuries and thereby turning the pendulum so far back, the study of history would seem to start and end with ANYTHING BUT "dead white males" which does a disservice to everybody. Cahill would remind us of the highlights of the shared cultural history for all of us who live in the Western world, no matter where our ancestors came from.
Picking apart, as some reviewers have done, that he doesn't delve into this or that major battle or expound on the importance of the trireme...that is exactly the type of dry academic history that drives off the reader who is wants a book to be interesting and to learn something new, not to pass a test. At this Cahill is excellent. I could quibble too, having my favorite time periods or persons skimmed over, but the idea is for these 5 books, the "Hinges of History" series (How the Irish Saved Civilization, The Gifts of the Jews, The Desire of the Everlasting Hills, the Mysteries of the Middle Ages) to be light and quickly read. This book on the Greeks gives us a quick look at their civilization, its arts, plays, (Homer rates a chapter unto himself as it should be, and in fact made me want to go read the translation by Fogle he quotes from extensively)...their warfare, recreation, philosophy, finally, how they "ended", when their they were conquered first by Alexander the Great and then by Rome, and then even further culturally extinguished by their absorption into Christianity which changed the uniqueness of what they were forever, for better or worse.
The Greeks invented democracy, not so little a thing when you think about it, and utilized it, really actually utilized it, for a long time. Eventually their political sytem too devolved into tyranny, and then they were conquered by outsiders, but for a brief time in all of the long history of the past in all of the planet, there was a small city-state which came up with this unbelievable idea, and put it into action. That, alone, would make them, as a people, memorable. Yes, they had slaves, and treated women badly (no worse than most ancient cultures and many modern ones however.)
Their democracy--actually, speaking only of Athen's and it's colonies for about 200 years: "Athens the world's firsts attempt at a democracy---a Greek word meaning "rule by the people"---still stands out as the most wildly participatory government in history. Never again would such a broadly based...model be attempted. And...it worked."
(Sparta, on the other hand,was "ruled by...a council of old men, was an airless, artless,nightmare of xenophobic military preparedness, the North Korea of its day.")
The Athenians idealized beauty, invented philosophical discussion, took mathematics and medicine from the ancient Egyptians and in the case of mathematics, kept on and on with it, tying it to philosophy and turning it something no longer earthbound, no longer just for the building of monuments for dead kings.
A worthwhile book, one that would hopefully introduce some people to the Greeks, reintroduce others, and perhaps help rehabilitate them again into our cultural legacy where they belong. Without them, none of us would be as we are, and probably be the worse for it.

Cahill's "Hinges of History" thus far have been fun, enlightening, educational, and insightful. This latest volume (4 of 7) is easily the best since "How the Irish Saved Civilization." Seasoned historians and classicists will probably find little new, though Cahill's narrative remains fresh and passionate. This is an especially appropriate starting point for those who honestly don't know much about antiquity and would like to find out why ancient Greece is continually stressed as one of the two main foundations for the entirety of Western culture.

Please keep in mind that this series is Cahill writing as a popularist, not as a more academic historian, and while popularists are often criticized by those who prefer stodgier academia, I maintain that popularists fill a vital niche in the furthering education of our societies.

This book serves, as one must suppose Cahill intended it to do, as an intriguing introduction to the culture of the Ancient Greeks and their continuing influence upon Western society. Cahill's choice of wording tends to jar at times: "yip-yapping" and "woo-woo wave" for example. He rather goes over the top in trying to make this book as "cool" as possible. And his quotations from Yeats and others throughout the book presume a level of cultivation with which this cutesy verbiage is at odds. Still, one could do much worse. He manages to convey, at times, forcefully, some of the most significant and powerful currents of Greek art, thought and culture. But, in the end, the best way to learn about the Greeks is from the Greeks: Thucydides, Plato Euripides etc. If this book piques your interest at all, I would recommend picking up any one of the fine translations of these authors' works. If not, well, I suppose it's all Greek to you.

I suspect I would have liked this book better if I had not had Cahill's other "Hinges of History" books to compare it to. Of the four- How the Irish Saved Civilization, The Gifts of the Jews, and Desire of the Everlasting Hills are the others- this was the least engaging to me. Taken by itself, I enjoyed Cahill's insight and irreverent humor as he traced the rise and fall of the Greeks from the Minoans through Alexander the Great. Using historical people or literary figures he shows us the development of the civilization in How to Fight, Feel, Party, Rule, Think and See from the perspectives of the Greeks. He acknowledges their limitations and their massive and amazing contributions. It was also interesting to read the first few pages about his approach to history and the last pages linking Greeks to other groups he has described. I look forward to the other books he has planned and this is well worth reading. Unfortunately for the author, (in my opinion) he is competing with his own earlier books and, as good as this is, it is not as good as the earlier three.

Cahill's object in this book is not to present a scholarly screed on the merits and demerits of the Ancient Greeks, but to transmit to the reader their humanity and personality in a way that veers from lyricism to a selective recitation of how they lived to influence the rise of the West. Not for him the weary recounting of kings and battles, but rather the enjoyment of their art, a meditation on their language, and an appreciation of their myths.

I, a relative novice in the historical arts, mired in the contemporary dogmas of multiculturalism, gained something from this book. It is that culture matters, and that not all cultures are equal at all times, for all times. The Greeks brought some unique materials to the table of a progressing civilization, and it merits some study to determine what the threads running through it were.

Their much celebrated discoveries of the practice of democracy, their penchant for skepticism, and invention of a heartless logic, all influence our own version of civilization in ways that we are hardly aware of, and that our pedagogues of today would have you believe came from everywhere but the Greeks.

Yes, the Greeks enslaved others, they killed one another endlessly, loved carelessly, believed in the merits of their race, and excluded women from their political palavers. But this is true of almost all civilizations everywhere at all times, and arguing that the Greeks are unworthy of our attention as a consequence, although fashionable in the current abominations of the academy, is as stupid as arguing that chemistry can be taught without acknowledging the centrality of the elements.

Cahill's sometimes excessively irreverent style, and his annoying attention to speculations on sexual matters, occasionally get in the way of his central message, but overall he has done a credible job here and produced a thought-provoking book that is worth reading, especially for multiculturalists with an open mind.

The author does a reasonable job of presenting some minor insights into the Ancient Greek experience however his political bias mars an otherwise credible albeit abbreviated analysis of Ancient Greeks as the progenitors of Western Civilization. His occasional use of obscenities throughout the book also detracts from its scholarship. Several of his insights and comparisons are tenuous to say the least and are not completely thought out. To one familiar with Greek many of his insights are obvious.

The author begins by contrasting the Iliad with the Odyssey arguing that one is an example of man's destructive militarism and the other an example of man's natural tendency to return to his home and the bosom of his faithful wife. He likens Odysseus at the end of his journey to Andromache the faithful wife of Hector. Homer must be turning over in his grave. The author fails to see that the epics are about the larger themes of man as an individual as he competes and struggles with himself and the external world both natural and supernatural. The author compares Greek militarism with President Bush's war on terror and likens it to the neo Conservative approach to foreign affairs. However instead of praising it he incredibly denounces it and goes so far as to predict its failure. While it is true that neo Conservative thought is based on Greek militarism it is the only means of maintaining world dominance which should be, and is, the only course for Western Civilization. To think otherwise is na?ve, absurd and laughable.

The author moves from war to a chapter titled "The Poet - How to Party" here the modern obligatory homage to homosexuality is made. Turning his attention to `How to Rule" he goes so far as to compare Franklyn Roosevelt with Solon. A more unlikely comparison I cannot conceive. The founding fathers are much more akin to Solon than is FDR who tried to undermine the Republic by introducing a statist ideology. This same chapter is also titled "The Politician and The Playwright". He justifies the transitions from Solon to Aeschylus by the weakest of arguments saying that both political discourse and the theater consist of a gathering of people into a single place.

In the chapter on "How to Think" the author spends an inordinate amount of pages on anecdotes from Plato's Republic and of course includes the symposium where once again homosexuality is discussed among the characters in the Republic and the concepts of love and beauty are examined, an odd choice for such a chapter on how to think, yet Aristotle's logic, ethics and science is given scant attention. While there is no denying that the Ancient Greeks thought about homosexuality, as they thought of almost everything else, at no time in history has so much attention been paid to this subject as in recent years and unfortunately this is an example of this current fad.

When discussing Ancient Greece's unparalleled contribution to art the author once again lapses into the homoerotic and more perverse aspects of the subject choosing to focus on the trivial while once again giving scant attention to the truly profound.

In the final chapter he likens JFK to Pericles and sets JFK as the pinnacle of American dominance. He is clearly confused at this point. The recent president most like Pericles is Ronald Reagan.

The author does finally acknowledge that Greek thought appeals to man because it ultimately elevates the individual above the group and that the true heritage of Ancient Greece is the elevation of the individual man as hero not the state as heroic.

Ancient Greece set the stage for the American experience. America is the Athens of old and its Pericles was Ronald Reagan who, unlike Pericles, survived to vanquish the Soviet Union, the Sparta of today. America thereby becomes the standard bearer for Western Civilization which remains and will continue to be the dominant world view. This is one insight that evaded the Author and his work is the poorer for it.

At a time when the western world and western values are under siege from secular and third world fascists this book is a needed remedy extolling the virtues of Greek Civilization and Greek common values. The Greeks are one of the many pillars of the western way of life. The author shows how much of our heritage comes from the Greek way of Life and Greek values. He explains how Greek Democracy, although not perfect, laid the foundation for a small group of American rebels in 1776. The book explains how Greek ideas about freedom and love of art helped create the Renaissance in the 1500s which influences our tolerance of the profane today.

This is an important work, although by no means the most interesting of the `hinges' series it is a very insightful and intelligent account. The book mostly focuses on Athenian Greek life and the philosophers and ideas it produced.

An interesting book, a good companion to the other `Hinges' books that look at the Irish and the Jewish contributions to the Western way of life.

The author accomplishes exactly what he sets out to do: introduce the breadth and importance of Greek Civilization. He does this by beginning with Homer and then includes chapters on art, politics, expression, war and other topics, showing the influence of Greeks. This is not encyclopedic history. Many important events are not covered or are mentioned cusorily. But, at the end of the book you are left with an overall sense of wonder at the Greeks and a desire to know more. And exactly what more could you ask for in a small book on an ancient and foreign culture?

Strengths of this book are the overall gestalt left by the author. He includes complete texts like Pericles funeral oration and many smaller fragments of other works illustrative of some aspect of the Greeks. His selections, while necessarily limited to keep the book short, are simply wonderful. His take on various works may be debated, but then so what? This makes for interesting reading and thinking, and isn't that why we read? Take for example Homer's Iliad. Cahill sees it as pointing out the nastiness of war. You may disagree but if you have ever read the whole Iliad (and not just the excerpts in your survey of literature textbook) I don't know how you could come away with any other view. (That the Greeks may have viewed this differently is open to debate) Chapter after chapter of Greeks and Trojans murdering each other most graphically and then robbing the body of its armor. Page after page of limbs hacked off, blood spurting and spears through various body parts in great detail leaves you numbed in the end. Petty fights over who gets to rape the captured women first and who gets the best seat at the table go on and on. How could anyone interpret this work otherwise would be more my question than why Cahill interprets the Iliad this way.

I admit I would tear out a few of the pages of pictures of homo-erotic art, but Cahill always includes sexuality in his books. His first "Hinges of History" book "How the Irish saved Civilization" (a better book, in my opinion) left me with the impression that Cahill wished to see Irish Kings copulate with white mares in public once again, just like in the good old days. Ignore these parts and enjoy the rest and you will be well served.

Cahill also juxtaposes ancient history with modern politics and war. You may feel that Cahill disparages the current political leaders. So what? Read and think anyway and you will still be well-served.

Overall, this is an excellent overview and will serve to pique your interest in a neglected area of education. It will also be informative and opinionated. Can't wait to see what Cahill writes next.

Take it from one of the masses.

I listened to the Olympia Dukakis-narrated CD version during a long night-time trip on interstate highways. To be honest, I use such opportunities to broaden my literary experience with books I might not be disciplined enough to pursue during my bubble-baths. Having limited knowledge of the classics but lots of curiosity, dating back to high school and my fascination with antiquities at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, I think I am fully qualified to call myself one of The Masses. For the first time, the story of the Illiad came alive for me as more than a yellowing tome to be labored through as an assignment. After decades of suspecting there was a real adventure there, I was fascinated and delighted.

I was sorry to see it end. Nothing but gratitude from this humble corner, to Thomas Cahill for talking to me and not down to me; and to Ms Dukakis for a wonderful performance as narrator of the CD.

Unfortunately, there is little in the book relating the Greeks to modern life, very few instances of why the Greeks really matter to us. It is an interesting discussion of the Athenians but virtually nothing about the many other Greek City-States, including Sparta, was included, and these other polis are no less important in defining Ancient Greek society as the Athenians. How did the oligarchs and kingdoms abounding in the Aegean two millennia ago affect future history? Is there an element of Sparta in present day governance, or in other aspects of life today? What were the differences in the various Greek States and why did democracy lose out among these various other systems? Is it true that the Athenians virtually argued themselves to death through their democratic processes and were they more successful when they turned, although briefly, to oligarchic rule? This could have been a much better book.

I thoroughly enjoyed the author's earlier work on how the Irish saved civilization. But this book was a disappointing compendium of Greek myths, legends and history that never reveals a plan behind the book. Taken in its subparts, many sections are engagingly informative in an elegant if sometimes pretentious prose. Yet the author ambles from here to there in a disjointed narrative with interesting nuggets but little insight. Where's the big picture? The author attempts to wrap it up at the end with a sentence about the Greeks' "variety of human response, lightening quick transmutations, resourcefulness, and inexhaustible creativity."

A subtitle like "A Greek Treasury of Personal Vignettes" might have been more descriptive and merited another star. But it falls short as a "hinge of history" with impoverished and even maladaptive connections (FDR as Solon - really?) to the modern world. I am sorry to not recommend it.

I am a fan of Cahill's books in this series, but this is perhaps the most lightweight entry: each chapter discussing a certain trait or characteristic, with an introductory myth to set the tone of the chapter. It's a bit constricting for a writer of Cahill's gifts, and it shows. This is a pleasant, mildly diverting entry in this series, though I suspect it will leave many (as it did me) longing for a bit more meat on these bones.

"Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea" is the latest installment (2003) of Thomas Cahill's hinges of history series, which began with the delightful and insightful "How the Irish Saved Civilization." In this volume, Cahill conducts a brief if highly readable survey of classical Greek civilization to highlight its subsequent impact on the culture of the West. As Cahill lays it out, classical Greek civilization had an enormous influence on how the West approaches art, philosophy, drama, and government. The Greek willingness to think, discuss, experiment, and investigate was the basis for remarkable innovation in heroic sculpture, democratic self-government, a framework for natural and individual philosophy, and the dramatic and comedic schools of theater. Along the way, Cahill provides some insightful vignettes into the Greek psyche.

Inevitably, a single volume treatment on such a complex subject as classical Greek civilization must simplify a great deal. Also perhaps inevitably, this volume lacks some of the almost intimate emotional empathy that drove "How the Irish Saved Civilization" and to a lesser extent, the "Desire of the Everlasting Hills." Finally, Cahill could not resist making a few sour remarks attempting to link the Global War on Terrorism to the Peloponnesian War that caused the downfall of the great city-state of Athens.

This volume is recommended to the reader already hooked on Cahill's hinges of history series, and those looking for a very readable survey on Greek civilization.

This study of the ancient Greeks and their imprint on western civilization is easily the worst of Cahill's hinges of history books. While his study of the Irish and Jesus of Nazareth pique the imagination, here Cahill plods through the Greeks well-known accomplishments and begins with a totally uninsightful examination of the Greeks at war. He concludes that all peoples fight one another -- wow, the scales fall from the eyes! How about comparing the warring Greek city-states to rival European nations of the modern era, with Parisians somewhat analogous to Athenians and Prussians a modern equivalent, at least militarily, of the hardcore Spartans? Cahill's descriptions of Greek art are interesting, but oddly the book features overabundant photographs of prurient content, of leering satyrs and symposia turned carnal, all of which suggest that the art of our cultural forbearers was almost exclusively obsessed with copulation. The imbalance tends to obscure the Greeks equal if not greater love for the pastoral and quotidian.

Cahill loves to shock. All of his thought-provoking books contain short phrases, interspersed in scholarly passages, that are especially designed to rock back the reader. The style and effect are amusing if used in moderation. In "Wine Dark Sea" he simply goes overboard and at times just seems bufoonish. The editorializing in the discussion of Pericles, where the author heaps much undeserved praise on John F. Kennedy and perhaps prematurely and unwisely takes a swipe at America's military adventures in the Middle East, compromises attempts at historical analysis. That said, Cahill is provocative and therefore a hard habit to break. While an inferior introduction to the mighty and erudite Greeks, this book at least gets a reaction, maybe even nudging further exploration of its sea deep subject.

Cahill's "Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: Why the Greeks Matter" may be too elementary for those who are steeped in Classical Greek Civilization. But for those like me, who chose math & science over arts & letters, this was a great read.

Cahill takes the reader through the development of Greek culture, its merger with Roman culture, and, the merger of Greco-Roman culture with Judeo-Christian culture creating "the mighty torrent" of Western civilization. The last required the meshing of two separate ideas about the individual - the Greco-Roman's journey of individual public achievement (fate was central) with the Judeo-Christian's personal journey with God (hope was central).

Each chapter had something to offer keeping the reader engaged throughout. I found many gems including but not limited to:
- the Greeks created the first vowels significantly reducing the power of the scribes, who had a monopoly on interpretation. This, in turn,led to a free flow of ideas and speech.
- the Greeks established public service without compensation.
- Medea as a forerunner in women's rights.
- the beginnings of social, political, and artistic study, and the love of wisdom.
- the raising of fundamental questions like "What is the nature of reality?"
- Greek warfare, and its implications today in the US' role as the sole world power.

Cahill covers all the important classics like the Iliad and the Odyssey; the role of the Gods (Aphrodites exposed "the forbidden power of women" for the first time in history); the Persian Wars (if they had lost, Western civilization would not be what it is today); important figures like Sophicles, Plato, Phythagorus, Socrates (provided a radical challenge to the unexamined assumptions of Greek Life and the concept of forgiveness), Alexander the Great, and Peracles; and the invention of Theology, Philosophy, Ethics (How best to live), Political Science, Physical Science, Medicine, Psychology, and Mathematics.

This book did what was intended - appreciating the Greek's role in the formation of Western Civilization - and will be a book I will refer to in the years to come.

There are a lot of books introducing Greek politics, philosophy, and society. Cahill's offering in 'Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea' doesn't add much that is new to the mix. Yet it is very readable, despite being chock full of Cahill's offhanded contemporary analogies that, while perhaps making the past more accessible to the present, often go beyond the pale ("The Greeks...could sometimes be as soppy as a Liza Minelli concert"). Despite these occasional absurdities, only someone with a solid handle on his subject can consistently get away with that kind of writing and still teach us something.

Cahill passes the test, and 'Wine Dark Sea' is a good way to discover (or rediscover) the basics of classical Greek culture. Although his chapters ("How to Fight," "How to Party," "How to Think," etc.) make for choppy categorization of Hellenic life, he makes up for it with fresh interpretation. His own readings of Plato's dialogues render them accessible in ways they rarely are outside of a college level classics course. Oh yeah, and he doesn't shy away from extensive discussions of the Greeks and sex. (Just don't let the kids see the pictures.)

The book is an addition to Cahill's 'Hinges of History' series (which includes 'How the Irish Saved Civilization' and 'The Gifts of the Jews'). 'Wine Dark Sea' is not the best in the series, and not the best introduction to Greek culture available (if forced to choose I much prefer Edith Hamilton's 'The Greek Way'). But it is certainly an entertaining way to get your Greek fix.

Thomas Cahill has an interesting ability to write history about certain people that distinguishes him from other writers. Rather than going into specific information about dates, events, and famous people, he discusses fundamental factors that bring to the surface the importance of a particular group.

He was extremely successful with this style of writing when he wrote about the contributions of the Irish to Western Civilization after their conversion to Christianity. He followed up on this theme of writing by researching the tremendous effect that the Jewish people had on the development of a civil and moral society. Cahill displayed an exceptional skill in highlighting how significant the Jewish people were in positively changing the outlook of life in the Middle East and in the West without simply quoting stories from The Bible.

One expected this unique style of research and writing to continue as he wrote about the contributions of Greek society. The subtitle of this book is descriptive, because the Greeks truly do matter-they have mattered for nearly three thousand years. Unfortunately, Cahill missed the mark on explaining why they mattered so long ago, and how their contributions to Western life are still pertinent today.

When talking about the Greeks, one cannot leave out the mythology. However, Cahill tended to dwell too much on this aspect of Greek history.

For bad or for worse, many people associate the ancient Greeks with a licentious society. During Cahill's overview of this aspect of the Greeks, he became too vulgar in his descriptions of the open sexuality of old Greek society.

When Cahill compares parts of ancient Greece to the modern era, he tends to stray into areas that do not provide adequate comparisons. When describing a speech by Pericles, he somehow finds a reason to mention sport utility vehicles (SUVs). He further brings up references to John Kennedy and the struggles of black people without a clear relation to Greeks. As he attempts to criticize the current war in the Middle East, he mentions the lack of allies similar to the situation of Athens. The comparison is definitely subjective, since many will argue that there are indeed allies in the current struggle, so the comparison is not relevant to the study of Athens.

Some positive areas that he covered include the discussion of Rome and art in the Renaissance period. He also closed with a good conclusion by illuminating the Greek contributions and how they mixed with Judeo-Christian values, ultimately leading to the development of Western Civilization.

Although this work does not rank as high as "How the Irish Saved Civilization" or "The Gifts of the Jews", I would still recommend reading it. I look forward to the next book in his Hinges of History series.

Maybe 4.5 stars. I am not a history scholar - picked this up recently and enjoyed it a lot. My wish is that I could read Homer in the original ancient Greek. Never thought that before - and this is due to Cahill's passionate writing. It is not a history textbook - don't buy it for that reason. But it gets you thinking and feeling about what it must have been like to live in those times. Frankly, my knowledge of ancient Greece is very limited, so I am sure that determined the value I got from this book. This is the first book by Cahill I have read and I am excited that there are many others in this Hinges series.

Most educated people have some idea about the important contributions the Greeks have made to Western Civilization. We usually learn of their deeds in a hodge podge fashion. We learn about Pythagoras in Geometry Class or Socrates or Plato in an Introduction to Philosophy class. We know the Greeks are important but most of us know this in a scattered sort of way.

The beauty of this book is that Thomas Cahill gathers all their many varied contributions and distills them into one very well written single volume. I am sure there are other books that do the same thing. I would also doubt if there are any great scholarly breakthroughs in this book. However, what makes this book special is Cahill's talent as a writer. He has all the erudition and confidence that one associates with an Oxford or Cambridge don. It is good to know that the United States can produce such a well rounded and talented generalist. This book was a great pleasure to read. Highly recommended.

I found myself admiring the authors intellect but at the same time wondering why his readers would hang in there in such detail about Greek classical writing unless they were experts or had studied them.

I found, it wondered a lot and doubled back on the subject more than once.

The author's speech about his book was much more direct, entertaining, and interesting than the book. I'm sure all of this is in the book but I couldn't get myself interested enough to read it.

This review pertains to the audio CD. I purchased it on a whim, with no previous knowledge of the contents or the author, and with almost no experience with audio books. I listened to it while driving in the car, on my daily commute and while errand running.

Who chose Olympia Dukakis to read this? I found myself "reading" along with her, thinking about where I would insert inflection, or emphasis; her rendering of this text is by and large flat and lifeless, as if she were afraid to do anything more than relate the content verbally. I can understand a reluctance to "act" the work, but to render a work about ancient Greek culture and its relevance to modern civilization emotionless is a curious thing to want to do. If I were listening to this in bed, or at leisure, her drone would put me to sleep in less than five minutes. And, it is more than a little disconcerting when she reads the words of Cahill pertaining to his life in Ireland; it occurs far enough into the work that I'd "bought into" the idea that the narrator and the author were one and the same, and I found myself thinking (seriously), "I didn't know that Olympia Dukakis was Irish!" Yikes.

As for the content, as a spoken work it starts slowly and initially requires quite a bit of concentration. The premise and structure are laid out over most of 40 minutes or so in the introduction, and I found myself backspacing frequently to reaquire the density of thought that I'd missed. Eventually Dukakis gets in a groove, however, and I can hear her getting caught up in her love of the arts as she reads the chapter on Greek drama and poetry; when she reads about Oedipus, Jocasta, Medea, Sappho, Euripides, and others, the power of Cahill's thought and feeling becomes alive and beautiful. Other chapters are either more or less involving. Homer gets a fine effort, Athenean politics and social stucture less of one.

Overall, I find the power of the ideas outweigh the lackluster medium, hence the 3-star rating. I know very little about Greek culture, other than what I had to learn in school 35 years ago. Listening to this work fascinated me and piqued my interest in the source material, and sparked a trip to the library for Homer, Euripides, and Socrates; not as a duty, but in search of truth, beauty and knowledge. If you are interested in becoming interested in things out of the ordinary, or perhaps in this case ideas and concepts so ordinary as to have been completely assimilated and unnoticeable, this audio CD might be right for you.

Despite the subtitle of the book, Cahill has very little to say about why the Greeks matter. The book is rather short on analysis in general, and consists largely of lengthy quotations from Greek works (Homeric epics, dramas, Plato's Socratic dialogues, Thucydides, and descriptions of greek visual arts, etc.) with which the reader who was interested enough to pick up this book is probably already familiar, followed by sparse commentary by Cahill which takes for granted some prior knowledge but doesn't add much to it.

Also, some of the choices he makes about what material to treat at length and what material to omit are quite strange. To give just one example, in the chapter on Greek philosophy, Cahill devotes pages to the Pythagoreans, who he himself admits were considered bizarre by most Greeks. This might be justifiable given their influence on Plato, who was slightly more mainstream and of course has had tremendous historical influence. But then, turning to Aristotle, he spends a paragraph giving a brief list of a few of Aristotle's tremendous achievements (such as inventing formal logic and the science of biology), but then dismisses the subject by saying that Aristotle is "boring." I'm not kidding. He also says that Aristotle didn't have the philosophical scope, depth or insight of his master Plato, but this is certainly debatable to say the least, and in a book about why the Greeks matter to Western civilization, this treatment of Aristotle (the rediscovery of whose works in the Middle Ages led to the Renaissance) is really inexplicable, and unforgivable.

If you are interested in the Greeks but have only sketchy knowledge about them, this might be an okay introduction. Otherwise, skip it.

The other customers who rate Wine-Dark Sea poorly seem prejudiced by having read other books by Cahill, and find this title wanting by comparison. But I carry no such baggage. I haven't read anything else by Cahill. Provides an amphora's worth of insight to the Zeitgeist and culture of Ancient Greece. I found Wine-Dark Sea fascinating and absorbing. My only quibble is that it isn't long enough. If you're only going to read one book about Ancient Greece this is the one.

I had read Cahill's other three "Hinges of History" titles before I read this one. In comparison with the other three books, "Sailing the Wine Dark Seas" seems less planned and less insightful. Cahill never really establishes a solid link between the Greek world and our own. This is not to say that he does not explain Greek contributions to art, theater, and philosophy. However, at the end of the reading Cahill left me unconvinced that the Greeks were that important in the shaping of the modern world. Of course, the Greeks did make significant, lasting contributions. Cahill simply does a poor job of making the connections seem important.

If you are going to read a Cahill book, I recommend "How the Irish Saved Civilization."

This book was an enjoyable read. The tone was informative, though very casual and entertaining at the same time. The only problem I had with the book was that the thesis wasn't really clear, or rather it was a little broad. The title is "Why the Greeks Matter" and overall that is a very large topic to be covered. And the book kind of skims through an overview of it. Familiarization with the source material such as The Iliad, The Odyssey, and Plato's Republic etc. probably serves the reader more than simply reading this book alone. But as a companion book to those original texts and an encapsulation of ancient Greek culture, I found the book to be pretty good.

As a work-a-day person with historical bent, sometimes I like to refresh my appreciation of human progress. I cannot pretend to be a scholar. "Sailing the Wine Dark Sea" was a good lunchtime companion and overall, a pleasant read. No one should entertain the notion that this volume is presented as definitive study. There are many better, more thorough academic tomes detailing the minutiae of Greek life and culture. However, hefting them to the lunchcounter is a cumbersome affair.

Mr. Cahill gave me accessible, fresh perspective on classical Greek culture. Certainly the book concentrates on the foundational aspects of Greek invention, which are amply addressed and quite enjoyable. His discussion of Greek eroticism may disturb some readers who prefer to marginalize this aspect of classical culture. Mr. Cahill portrays the sexuality in certain circles of ancient Greece rather openly. Which is not something many books on the Greeks do. I am rereading a copy of the Dialogues which says in the Foreword, "A word is necessary about the vice of boy-loving which disfigured much of ancient Greece. . .in some states it was accepted even in law . . ." Not much interpretation there, though avoidance aplenty, methinks. Mr. Cahill manages to discuss the topic without opprobrium or applause. Frankly, I wouldn't buy a book detailing Greek homosexuality. Not because it disturbs me, there are just too many other fascinating topics that define the builders of the Parthenon and they beg my attention. However, the discussion in "Wine Dark Sea" lent context and gave me insight.

Belaboring, as I do, a yeoman's understanding of Plato, the accessibility of Mr. Cahill's work is an assist. I doubt Mr. Cahill intended "Wine Dark Sea," to be a by-word in discussions of classical Greece. I think he wrote the book for readers like me.

"Sailing the Wine Dark Sea," is far better pastime than the surfeit of pseudo-history clogging bestseller lists. It was provoking enough to merit a week of toting into the lunch mavens of yonder office park (where i do much of my more cherishable reading). That said, I will carry Mr. Cahill along with me for as long as he cares to write, since I always gain new prespective.

Why else read?

All of the books in Thomas Cahill's Hinges of History popular history series are engaging and occasionally irreverent. Sometimes, however, a book's title premise does end up seeming just a bit smaller than the number of pages allotted to it. In "Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea, Why the Greeks Matter," the reverse is true. The book's covers struggle to contain the ideas within. To paraphrase Peter Benchley: You're going to need a bigger book. Cahill doesn't though. Somehow he manages to fit much of the genesis of the long journey to who we are today within the book's 304 pages of text and appendices. The reader will find philosophy, theatre, history, sculpture and rhetoric, and many other Greek roots of Western civilization, all bubbling up in Mr. Cahill's happy cauldron.

After reading Edith Hamilton's classic popular history "The Greek Way," a person could legitimately feel that he or she has learned much through Ms. Hamilton's literate and well-reasoned presentation of ancient Greek thought and deed. On the other hand, when a reader finishes "Why the Greeks Matter," he or she may feel the need to rush out and devour Homer, Aeschylus, Pindar, Sappho and Plato. That same reader may also feel a compulsion to book a flight to Greece in order to be able to look up from a guide book and see the Parthenon atop the Acropolis or to sail the wine-dark sea in a ship of any hue.

The Greeks do matter, and Mr. Cahill makes a reader want to realize that truth.

I have enjoyed all of the books in Cahill's series, and consider him an excellent writer that provides thoughtful insight. This latest edition, however, is not on the same level as his other works. I think he fails to really, concretely show the reader what the Greek contribution is like he does in the rest of the series. Also, the narrative drags at times, especially in the "How to Think" chapter. This is a worhwhile read, but disappointing after reading his other books.

The best volume in Cahill's "Hinges of History" series by sheer weight of content and it's historical importance. It is nothing short of a Greek Tragedy, however, that such a "cream-skimming" review be hailed as important or original when these things should be known by every western "grandchild" of Greece (and educated people everywhere). History's most substantial subjects deserve more . . . substance. So with this relativist reasoning, I definitely recommend this book (but NOT the audio book of which Olympia Dukakis's "bull in a china shop" reading is the least euphonic experience I've had in years).

If the author's aim was to have the reader journey back and actually BE in the midst of the Greek world, he's done his job. He introduces each chapter with a Greek myth, as he explains the extraordinary minds that have left indelible marks on the modern world. I am eager to read the other books that are in progress.

Mary Anne Brannon

This is one book I received recently as a gift that was not asked for. It pleasantly surprised me. I was drawn in and enjoyed the discourse on the Greek contributions to Western Society.
It is divided into sections such as militarism, philosophy, ruling, art, and other aspects of Greek Society that have made an indellible mark on our present--and perhaps our future.
My favorite chapter was how the Greek Philosophers shaped our model of thinking. Cahill laid out how most schools created the original ideass that led to modern ideas of realism and existentialism.
The way Cahill also dissected the contributions of Solon as a precursor for protecting the Middle Class for a stable society was brilliant. Another insightful moment came from the chapter on how Greek culture emphasized the male in their art out of the sheer need of power. It also emphasized the ideal of youth, which made me wonder if Ancient Greeks also suffered from eating disorders.
However, not all aspects were not explored completely. I was disappoited in the chapter on Greek Militarism, because it only focused on the Trojan Wars and ignored the Spartan Miliatry Society, the Greek-Persian Wars, and the Peloponnesian Wars.
Even more troubling was the chapter on how the Greeks supposedly instructed us on how to party. At this point, it seemed the author was trying to reach for another aspect of life.
Still, overall, I enjoyed reading this and will be looking for future insights by Thomas Cahill.

In comparison to "How the Irish Saved Civilization," this book leaves much to be desired. Cahill tends to get caught up in mythology and interpretation of philosophy and prose; with little indication of how Greek though and arts influenced the modern era. The appendices, however, are helpful.

Thomas Cahill's "Hinges of History" series has emerged as one of the most popular series of intellectual histories ever written, and also the most important. Intellectual history is often written by historians for historians, and you need at least a Master's degree to get past Chapter One. Cahill is among the most accessible intellectual historians writing today, but he cannot be accused of dumbing things down for his audience.

Cahill's take on the Greeks is that they have laid the foundation for virtually all of Western Civilization - for both good and bad. For Cahill, being relatively pacifist, has strong reservations about the Greek worship of the cult of the warrior, as exemplified by Achilles and Homer's Iliad. But Cahill also acknowledges that the "Greeks" created archetypes of artists, philosophers, governors, and playwrights that serve our modern world quite well. (I use "Greeks" because, as Cahill rightly points out, the Greeks were hardly a unified group and often the word "Greeks" is used as a synonym for "Athenians.")

This is a relatively short work - Cahill has the confidence to make his point succinctly and then move on. Do not pick up this book if you're looking for a comprehensive history of the ancient Greeks or the Hellenic world. He also has the confidence to quote the ancient sources at length, including Pericles' entire funeral oration from the war against the Spartans. Cahill uses Pericles' speech (as well as other quotations) to gain insight into the Greek mind and how the Greeks thoughts in many ways parallel our own. This is a fascinating work.

While anyone can benefit from reading all of the books from the Hinges of History series, the series does not have to be read in order. So if you're looking to give Cahill a try and already are a bit familiar with the ancient Greeks, this book is a fine place to start.

When I was a boy I was given a book on classical Greece. A childs book, it celebrated the virtues of Greece and passed by some of the less-glamorous characteristics.

Mr. Cahill writes a fascinating a highly understandable book about the heritage that we, who think of ourselves as Westerners, owe to the Greeks of the classical age. I avoid the term "ancient" when I discuss the Greeks of this period, as even though they are seperated from us by 2,400 years, they are not only like us in many ways, they ARE us. Unlike earlier cultures, the contentious and divisive Greeks are our progenitors. Mr. Cahill has written an excellent narrative regarding the debt that western culture owes to the political, social, artistic, and cultural inventions of the Greeks, both good and bad, and he does so in a lively and very thoughtful way.

This is probably not a book which will provide new information to the serious scholar, however it will cause almost any reader to stop and reflect on our heritage, where it cam from, and how it evolved.

I find that with audio, if I am not happy at the end of the first cd, I move on to the next book... This is one of those. I learned little in the first cd, didnt learn anything about why the greeks mattered - maybe he is saving the interesting stuff for the last 4 cd,s.

Edith Hamilton is great--read her in high school eons ago. Cahill covers the territory from Homer on down for the lay person beautifully.

Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea did not rise to the level of How the Irish Saved Civilization or Gift of the Jews for me. Cahill writes in-depthly about the greek literature that I found interesting and enlightening. He also discusses the writings of Plato and Aristotle. He delves into the culture of ancient greek and the behavior of the men and women of the times.

But for me, he never fully expounded why the greeks matter. I'm sure they do matter, so Cahill could have focused more on their contributions rather than their lifestyles. Cahill seems to want to merely discuss greek life rather than inform about the meaning and significance of their civilization.

Cahill is a brilliant writer and historian. His writings in this book are also brilliant but seem to be off message.

Not as concise and tightly written as Cahill's other works on Judaism, Christianity and the Irish. Not a bad starting point on the Greeks, yet seemed confused and disorganized at times. Still, many bright spots and certainly worth a look and 4 stars.

Again, Mr. Cahill makes ancient times come to life and gives his readers a fresh, organized, and insightful view. Many of the modern era analogies he attempts to establish are biased and clumsy, at best, and have a "tacked-on" feel. This is a minor distraction from a terrific work and I feel as though I have sailed the wine-dark sea.

Many of us had our first and our only exposure to Greek culture and thought somewhere around October of our sophomore year Western Civ class. The ancients seemed dry, dusty and far removed from the hurly burly of our modern concerns. Tom Cahill gives us a not very deep survey of Greek life, but he does a nice job of making their world positively lively, seeing much of the passion and complexity that animates our own. That said, "Why the Greeks Matter" sometimes seems tedious, sounding more like Cahill's personal (if informed) judgment about the Greeks. About 2/3 of the way through, I wasn't sure I'd bother to finish.

Taking his starting point as the myths they fashioned and the stories they told (with emphasis on the Iliad and Odyssey) Cahill draws a male-oriented, martial culture whose women lived at the margins of a world dominated by husbands, sons and brothers. Cahill sketches Greek attitudes toward ruling, partying and thinking. Whether under a hereditary ruler called a balileos (chieftain) or a non-hereditary tyrannos (only later take as pejorative), the entire population of Athens gathered weekly to empanel juries and voice opinions on matters large and small. The Symposion, originally a drinking party, started (opines Cahill) as a way for the aristocracy to forget their state of constant warfare, and evolved toward wineless erudition. The great Greek comedic and tragic playwriting evolved from worship services into citywide contests and safety valve for societal pressures. Even Plato's dialogs owe much to the forms and conventions of the stage.

The chapter on writing was particularly interesting. Greek's vowel-rich accessibility allowed children, women and slaves to read, and may have encouraged a tolerance for disputation that led to democratic forms of government. Cahill's exposition of the Odyssey is a tender reappraisal of Homer as a writer. I'm not privy to the great debate on whether Homer existed, or whether he was literate, but Cahill makes a good case that the Odyssey -- with all its weepiness and longing for home -- is an old man's reflection on the more martial, young man's spirit of the Iliad.

Cahill parades Greek philosophers and scientists, whose semi-theological and contradictory notions laid the foundation for the more systematic thinking of later scientific eras. Pre-Socratic philosophers, unfettered by prior teachings, began to lay out the scientific field on which we now play. Pythagoras's explorations into the divine basis for all things, leading him to discover the theorem about right angles that bears his name. Cahill gives us Socrates, gadfly and incisive questioner, seen through the lens of his disciple Plato, who used a theatrical device, the dialog, to frame his prose thoughts. Cahill gives an overview of the development of Greek sculpture, from the Egypt-inspired, stylized nude koroi, to the more adventuresome forays into nude male and female sculpture. Cahill's description of the hyper-bawdy Greek theater, with it's aroused satyrs and comically over endowed choruses, gives us a different

The book's weakness, I think is threefold. One, Cahill seems to be giving us his personal opinion much of the time. In one sense, this is helpful, in that it allows us to see a wide swath of time with a single viewpoint, with Cahill fulfilling the role of omniscient judge of quality. On the other hand, the opinions are only his. Secondly, the subject matter is so broad, complex and unruly. We're talking about making unified sense of a culture that spanned Plato to Euripides to Pericles to Demosthenes -- and those were the smart folks. Third, Cahill the question of why Greek war making (or philosophy or partying) matters would require us to know more about what other cultures felt about these human pursuits. While there is much about Greek life, as put forth by Cahill, that seems familiar to us, is that because of a unique Greek contribution or because we and the Greeks share common humanity and worldview? The accumulation of these problems made picking up the book sometimes seems daunting.

Cahill ends with a discussion of the decline of Greek thinking. Having lost a number of wars with Sparta, being colonized by Rome and tames by Christianity, the Greek impetus for curiosity and experimentation fizzled out. But it was a great ride while it lasted".

"Why the Greeks Matter" may have fallen short in answering the question posed by the title, but it at least made the Greeks lest of a dusty lot, and more alive and relevant. Mission accomplished, I should say.

Thomas Cahill write excellent history of all Europe. Read most and still reading another, but he makes everything interesting, and real. Too much history can be killed by the authors, but not Cahill. He brings it light and fun to read. I am reading all his histories.

Liked this book as much as the How the Irish Saved Civilization.
I am a Greek history buff and obsessed with the Iliad which may be another reason I enjoyed this overview of Greek culture. Not so much that I learned new things but found new ways of looking at old things.

Thomas Cahill is arguably one of the best historians writing today.
The Hinges of History series is phenomenal.

Actually I was enjoying the book most of the way through. Cahill writes well, without every drab detail that most history textbooks include. My disappointment started around chapter 7 "Greco-Roman Meets Judeo-Christian" where Cahill applauds separation of church and state. Worse, he takes it a step further and jumps on the Bush-bashing bandwagon, even specifically calling out Don Rumsfeld as an imperialist and criticizing the current administration for a "dismissive" approach to the UN. Perhaps the author hadn't noticed the UN is filled with dictators and deep corruption. Sorry Mr. Cahill, you just alienated half of your fan base.

This book is supurb, so much so that I bought a copy for my psychologist-daughter and one for my writer-daughter. The book unravels and reveals an enormously interesting insight into the derivation, evolution and meaning of the arts of western civilization. It's an incredibly compelling read, while entertaining and connecting a plethora of the cultural "dots" we take for granted in our time.

THIS BOOK IS OUR NEXT BOOK CLUB BOOK AND I AM HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF TROUBLE GETTING INTO IT. I THINK IT WILL BE A VERY GOOD BOOK ONCE I AM ABLE TO GET INTO IT.